LORD OF THE FLIES

WILLIAM GOLDING

Are Humans as desperately evil as Golding supposes? Do you think that a child is just as evil as an adult. Do we all have a potential Hitler in us? I would say yes.

Nature vs. nurture. I believe that all people are born with a certain mindset. I also believe that mindset can be altered to carying degrees by nurture or life experiences. But back to nature, I definitely think there are many many people born with negative mindsets where they either follow existing evil or develop their own evil. Evil, in this sense, can be very broad, perhaps choosing to kill a bug unprovocted or murdering someone... I wouldn't say there are tons of people born with a Hitler mindset, since that is am extreme example. Either way, I watched the movie of this from like the 80's and it scared me!

I think that it is a combination of both. Every man has the potential for great good and great evil. All people have a Hitler or Stalin inside as well as a Mother Teresa or Patrick Henry. It seems to me that within each person there is three sides Good, Evil, and the person struggling in between. Everyday we make the choice of who to listen to. That is what we see in the book. The boys didn't start out evil. They didn't intend to go where they did, but by giving into their evil side little by little they ended up in a place nobody thought they could get. This is a risk we all run. If we are not firm everyday we will wake up one day and find out that we are a monster. I think this is what Golding was trying to convey. Not that some are born good and some are born bad, but that we are born with potential for both. Thought danger is that is is easy being bad.

I would repeat one of Hobbes mottos: "Homo homini lupus"...and...yes,I think it was exactly what Golding had in mind...he showed it by setting the story in the world of childhood,because children are pure human beings,in other words: how we are at the start...and the answer is: yes,we are bad!..because we are,after all,animals,and in the world of the animals only the strongest,only the cruelest and the most clever can survive.

True, but unlike animals Humans have a choice. Unfortunately the bad one is more often taken and is easier.

I see what you're saying although in the case of children, they don't necessarily know the difference between good and bad, that is why our government has seperate system for children and adults. So I still think children are born with a certain gravitation towards either bad things or good things. Also, there are leaders and followers. Some kids born to be bad are leaders while the inbetween ones, who may not realize it is bad or perhaps agree with the bad, go with the bad leader simply because they are followers. They are too scared to be independent or they are scared of the consequences.

Golding makes the point to illustrate that humans are innately evil. Think about it. The island is a microcosm of the world around the boys. The boys are acting upon their own hedonistic impulses and the modeling of the world around them. Are they evil from birth? Youbetcha Even Piggy and Simon have flaws and can be cruel.

I believe you are correct. As one who believes the Bible and tries to live by what is written in it, I believe that everyone of us is born sinful. That is, we are all capable of the same destructive tendencies as were described in this book. I saw someone else referred to the nature vs nurture argument, which I also see as valid. No matter how we are born, no matter what we are (or are not) capable of doing, it is up to those who raise us and teach us and guide us to instill in us the overall moral values of society. Simply put, we have to be *taught* right from wrong by those who are older and wiser and more experienced than us.

Could you please give the context and source of your Latin quote? I've never seen that phrase b4.

I found it on Wikipedia. "The phrase is sometimes translated as 'man is man's wolf', which can be interpreted to mean that men prey upon other men." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_homini_lupus

I agree with that loose translation. I believe that's part of the concept behind survival of the fittest, and the best human example I can think of is schoolyard bullies, or gangsters. (I think some of those gang members start out as schoolyard bullies and as they grow up, they find more people like themselves to use as role models for their own lives.)

Absolutely!